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 SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?

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joefrank
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PostSubject: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:50 pm

1/20/2011


Just read that Social Security is ready to default ! What do you think
should be done ?......

I believe I have read you only pay Social Security taxes up to $100,000-
So if you make like a CEO or a Movie Star you don't pay Social Security Tax
on the rest of the 9Million 9 hundred thousand dollars, I think they should
tax the whole 10 Million for Social Security Tax = 10 Million X 6.5%=$650,000-
What do you think, here's the article...

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/retirement/social-security-far-worse-shape-than-you-think/19804267/?ncid=webmail

Cheers...Joe...
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Joe,

I think as you do.

They should tax the whole amount.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:25 pm

The last factual report I read indicated that Social Security is good for the next 40 years if nothing else is done.

I agree with Joe, however, that Social Security Tax should be taken out of salaries as far as salaries go. The very wealthy CEO's will escape a lot of the tax anyway because the majority of their wealth is in stock and perks from which no Social Security Tax is taken.

I also believe that Social Security should have a means test. It does not make sense to me that my friends whose combined marital income after retirement is nearly $one million annually should be drawing Social Security. Especially because they did not pay into it past whatever the cut-off was.

Social Security is INSURANCE against poverty. We don't expect an income from our house insurance just because our house does not burn down or from our car insurance because we have no accidents. I have accident insurance I pay every year; unless I have an accident I will never see any money from that. Insurance is money "in case" for which we pay a small amount along the way.

The best assurance that Social Security will continue is to create jobs and encourage the employment of young people who will contribute to Social Security for many years. Instead of teaching them that Social Security will not be there for them; change the paradigm that makes Social Security insurance "just in case" - not a guarantee.

We need a universal healthcare system for all U.S. citizens and then Medicare needs not be a separate issue. Neither would Medicaid. It all needs to be part of one system.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:31 pm

I forgot; when they got their first S.S. check, they called it their "mad money" - extra money to play with. When people are barely making it these days on their retirement income of which S.S. is a major part, I find that attitude very self-serving.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:44 pm

Those who earn over $100K don't pay Social Security past that because they don't receive anything back past that. The SS formula doesn't recognize anything after $100K in its benefits calculation. So it's not like millionaires are receiving back outsized SS checks after not putting outsized amounts in. They receive the same size checks that high earners much less "high" than them receive.

I know couples drawing three or four pensions between them who jokingly refer to one pension as their Las Vegas gambling money. Or they give one pension's value to their adult kids. I suppose the next step would be for them to forfeit one of those pensions because they don't really "need" it?

My understanding of Social Security is not that it was an "insurance policy," but rather it was a program instituted to ensure that every working American would have a least a small guaranteed amount in retirement so they wouldn't live in poverty. It has turned into a giant, bloated program, though, that covers things its original mandate never intended. And there are things I consider unfair about it, such as, for example, a widow of a man who earned $100K/year receiving the same size checks as a retired working couple who, combined, earned $100K/year. When the widow rarely worked and consequently contributed little into the pot herself. I don't understand that at all. It's parasitic. She should get checks that the lowest earning working person would receive. Why is it taxpayer responsibility to continue to support her in the "manner to which she's accustomed?"
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:05 pm

Pensions are not insurance like Social Security Insurance. Pensions are a perk of employment that differs by employer.
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:16 pm

The purpose of a pension is insurance against penury in old age, too. And just like Social Security, people spend a lifetime contributing to it with the expectation they'll get something back. SS was never intended to be a complete retirement package, and taking it from people who understood that and contributed to separate savings accounts is punishing their prudence.

Social Security Insurance is a misnomer, anyhow. Like Social Security Disability Insurance and Social Security Supplemental Insurance -none of these are "insurance policies." They all have Orwellian names.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:43 pm

1/20/2011

I do believe that if Social Security was set up in a
different way , like a private retirement account, personal
not touchable by the government with interest I do believe
people would have been better off, but no the Govt. had to
get their sticky fingers in it and take from it, I believe that
the top is $1600- a month...


Cheers..Joe
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:59 pm

It blows my mind. SS was reported during the Clinton Administration to have a surplus. What happened to the money? It was also reported that the government used SS funds. I never read where it was repaid or that interest was paid on the money taken/borrowed.
I'm not a financial wiz, but my common sense calculator would make me wonder how the fund could be short based on the following:
People pay in to the fund during their working lifetime.
When they are eligible to receive payments, the amount they receive is based on what they paid in. So what happened to the money they paid in?

If a person were to pay into a savings account monthly, during their working life, they could draw on these funds that have also accrued interest. The money would be there, assuming the bank was still around.

Are we saying that our government has mis-managed our funds? Stolen the money? Cannot be trusted?

I have not read anything to explain why the SS fund is short of money.
Why? Quoting the amount of shortfall or how much was paid out last year doesn't account for what was done with the money paid into the fund.
What about a balance sheet? Where's the money?
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:28 am

1/20/2011


Abe..

I've read many articles over the past two years
the Govt. has been borrowing from it and putting
I.O.U.'s in the fund box...How come we're in hock
to China ? I never, ever remember reading growing
up 50 years ago of this country borrowing money
from other countries it was always the reverse. And
why do you think the head of China is here ? I guess
we're going to borrow a few trillion more....


Cheers..Joe
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:41 am

The last I read about Social Security was that it is not in jeopardy. Also, it is not designed for my contributions to be paid to me. It is designed for the incoming, younger workforce to make the contributions that keeps the fund solvent for the older, retiring workers. The "concern" is that the lack of employment opportunities, the reduction in a youthful workforce and the growing number of aging people who are living beyond the actuarial table projections "might" put a strain on the resources. The cure is high employment of a youthful workforce. I repeat: Social Security is not at risk unless the fear people using it for a political football mess with it.

If, in fact, the Republicans had their way and it was turned into a private investment fund, there would be no Social Security for anyone right now because of the downturn in the economy. We can thank our lucky stars that the proposal to do that was squelched by the more sensible economists. The opportunity to save money in the bank and/or invest is always there for every U.S. citizen. I highly advise those who believe that is the best system to do exactly that, save their own money for retirement. In fact, that is what we are supposed to do. Social Security was never intended as the only retirement income. It was intended as a supplement.
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:55 am

Please remember, under the Clinton Administration, the U.S. was in a time of high prosperity and surplusses. The Bush Administration took us into wars and debt without provisions for payment. The mood of the country was stirred to a frenzy to allow it to happen.

Now, we pay the piper. It's a lot more fun to incur debt than to find a way out. Just look at personal debt as an example. Some people will never dig out of their own holes from living high while the country was at war.

I will never understand sending men and women to fight a war with no war tax or participation by the rest of the citizens of the U.S. Corporate greed went to an all time high; personal expenditures and extravagant living continued. Yet, young men and women were dying in foreign countries in the belief that they were protecting this country that watched their war on 52 inch television screens.

Many of those same young men and women were the earlier victims of a slipping economy and were in the military because of economic rather than pure patriotic reasons: it was their only choice to have a career or a college education.

It's so easy to look at the current administration and say "tsk tsk" because in two years they have not been able to turn around an economic rift that was inherited and instead face opposition energy tearing down the positive progress that has been made, looking for red herrings to continue the scare tacktics on the U.S. Citizens for political gains.

An administration that has built a new health care system against all odds and many economic corrections to protect us in many other areas, will not allow Social Security to take a dive.
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:19 am

I don't receive SS; I draw a teacher's pension instead. I qualify for Medicare through my ex's SS#, due to the 14 years we were married and filing a joint return.

I did not work outside the home during those years. My part of the marriage partnership was to stay at home, keep the house, and take care of the children. That was my work, and what gives me the right to those Medicare benefits, and it was a full-time job. My Medicare benefits are an earned right; partly because I gave up the earnings I would have had if I had not chosen to stay at home and be a full-time wife and mother; partly because the contribution I was making to the marriage was a valuable one. The cost of a full-time housekeeper and nanny would have been quite high. I also contributed to our family income through the time I spent doing community volunteer work and frequently entertaining business clients.

That widow has earned her SS payments the same way. It has only been during the last generation that a woman's rights have allowed her to be a fully independent person. I wouldn't count her with those who are taking more than their share from the program.

Ann
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:54 am

Ann,

You more than earned your benefits. The hardest job I ever did was take care of kids and keep a house.

There were no coffee breaks either. lol!
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:10 am

A man's productivity is increased by the support of a spouse: his ability to earn a higher income by devoting all his energy to his work. If he has any leftover, he can share it with his secretary. Thereby, he is able to contribute the max to his taxes.

I remember my first great job. I thought, "boy, what I need is a wife like me so when I get home dinner is ready, the children are bathed and awaiting their story and I have not a care: no washing and ironing, no house cleaning, no clothes or grocery shopping, no budgeting or bill paying, etc. etc."
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:26 am

Quote :
did not work outside the home during those years. My part of the marriage partnership was to stay at home, keep the house, and take care of the children. That was my work, and what gives me the right to those Medicare benefits, and it was a full-time job. My Medicare benefits are an earned right; partly because I gave up the earnings I would have had if I had not chosen to stay at home and be a full-time wife and mother; partly because the contribution I was making to the marriage was a valuable one. The cost of a full-time housekeeper and nanny would have been quite high. I also contributed to our family income through the time I spent doing community volunteer work and frequently entertaining business clients.

That widow has earned her SS payments the same way. It has only been during the last generation that a woman's rights have allowed her to be a fully independent person. I wouldn't count her with those who are taking more than their share from the program.

This is an old argument. Using this logic, I should get as much SS as the highest earner receives, because I "scaled back" to take care of my kids and house. I would have really earned top dollar, but I had a "job" of housekeeping, kid-caring, etc., so where's my credit for that?

The cold reality is that taking care of kids is not a "job" unless you work in an orphanage. It's a responsibility we all chose to take on. And since many women with kids ALSO worked, why don't they get double credit from SS?

The "I made it easier for my husband to work" argument is also flawed, because there is no way measure or quantify this help -lots of men are successful DESPITE their wives. The bottom line is that they contributed little to anyone's families except their own, and nothing to the SS coffers. So to receive the amount they get based on their high-earner's husband's pay is really an insult, IMO, to people who actually did work and contribute to the coffers.

I was outraged years back when NOW wanted to include SS payments for long-term SAHPs using this flawed logic. And I also reject the "studies" that show it would cost hundreds of thousands to replace a SAHM, the ones that add up what a chef, housekeeper, etc., etc., costs. Cleaning one's own goddamn house doesn't make one a housekeeper, watching one's own kids doesn't make one a nanny, and cooking one's own meals doesn't make one a chef. What next, a variable in the benefits calculation formula for brushing one's own teeth?
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:36 am

1/20/2011

25 Years ago when my brother died at 31 my sister-in-law
and her son then 7 1/2 yrs old collected Social Security, they
each received $800- a month. One year later she went back to
work and lost the benefits, her son lost it at 18 because the laws
changed. After many years of going to college she works for the
state of NY well paying job for 15 years, her son is now a
Radiologist and has taken trips all over the world and he always
looks after his mom. I'm very proud of both of them.

Now I've read in several articles where criminals are collecting
Social Security in prison, why ?


Cheers...Joe
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:36 am

Quote :
remember my first great job. I thought, "boy, what I need is a wife like me so when I get home dinner is ready, the children are bathed and awaiting their story and I have not a care: no washing and ironing, no house cleaning, no clothes or grocery shopping, no budgeting or bill paying, etc. etc."

I dunno, DK, I know a lot of women who hire much of that out. And their husbands do the yardwork, take over childcare when they get home, cook on weekends, etc.

If you read men's boards (askmen.com is one of my favorites), a chief complaint there is that so few women do much of that anymore. It seems to be a reason that today's marriage rates are so low; today's woman isn't doing much for today's man that he can't do himself.
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alice
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:49 am

LC wrote:
Quote :
did not work outside the home during those years. My part of the marriage partnership was to stay at home, keep the house, and take care of the children. That was my work, and what gives me the right to those Medicare benefits, and it was a full-time job. My Medicare benefits are an earned right; partly because I gave up the earnings I would have had if I had not chosen to stay at home and be a full-time wife and mother; partly because the contribution I was making to the marriage was a valuable one. The cost of a full-time housekeeper and nanny would have been quite high. I also contributed to our family income through the time I spent doing community volunteer work and frequently entertaining business clients.

That widow has earned her SS payments the same way. It has only been during the last generation that a woman's rights have allowed her to be a fully independent person. I wouldn't count her with those who are taking more than their share from the program.

This is an old argument. Using this logic, I should get as much SS as the highest earner receives, because I "scaled back" to take care of my kids and house. I would have really earned top dollar, but I had a "job" of housekeeping, kid-caring, etc., so where's my credit for that?

The cold reality is that taking care of kids is not a "job" unless you work in an orphanage. It's a responsibility we all chose to take on. And since many women with kids ALSO worked, why don't they get double credit from SS?

The "I made it easier for my husband to work" argument is also flawed, because there is no way measure or quantify this help -lots of men are successful DESPITE their wives. The bottom line is that they contributed little to anyone's families except their own, and nothing to the SS coffers. So to receive the amount they get based on their high-earner's husband's pay is really an insult, IMO, to people who actually did work and contribute to the coffers.

I was outraged years back when NOW wanted to include SS payments for long-term SAHPs using this flawed logic. And I also reject the "studies" that show it would cost hundreds of thousands to replace a SAHM, the ones that add up what a chef, housekeeper, etc., etc., costs. Cleaning one's own goddamn house doesn't make one a housekeeper, watching one's own kids doesn't make one a nanny, and cooking one's own meals doesn't make one a chef. What next, a variable in the benefits calculation formula for brushing one's own teeth?


Your point?
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:04 am

Quote :
The cold reality is that taking care of kids is
not a "job" unless you work in an orphanage. It's a responsibility we
all chose to take on. And since many women with kids ALSO worked, why
don't they get double credit from SS?

Spoken by someone who grew up in a very different situation and culture than most of us women who are seniors today.

It's hard to get something you haven't experienced.

Even so, I still say that the time spent caring for the home and children is a major contribution to the well-being of a family, and accounts for a sizeable portion of the family's available funds.

Today, women who choose to work outside the home generally get more help and cooperation from their husbands than was typical a quarter of a century ago. Improvements in technology cut back on housework time, and our expectations have lowered.

In many cases - not LC's; she clearly enjoys cooking - but many, having less time to spend on the home means fast food dinners and unhealthy children.

Maybe its because I live in a community property state, but I see a couple as an entity, each person having a valuable contribution to make to the unit, and there is much value in caring for the family's home.

We are still suffering, it seems, from a devaluation of feminine qualities, even though we have earned the hard-fought right to be treated like men.

Just an old lady talking

Ann
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LC
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:17 am

Quote :
each person having a valuable contribution to make to the unit, and there is much value in caring for the family's home.

I never said there isn't. My point is that that value is largely confined to THAT family's home, hence THAT family should be taking care of the contributor. Not the taxpayer. I take care of my own home while making hard cash contributions to SS, and then I end up taking care of that contributor, too.

Quote :
In many cases - not LC's; she clearly enjoys cooking - but many, having less time to spend on the home means fast food dinners and unhealthy children.

Actually, I'm not wild about cooking, but you're making my point here. Those families make great sacrifices to their own to work and contribute to SS's coffers, yet they end up carrying the non-contributors. Which has to be done, but I resent carrying those non-contributors at a higher level than what I might be entitled to on my own.
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:34 am

Ann,

This "old lady" sees it the same way you do.


LC,

Relax!
It is not costing you anything more. 6.5% is 6.5% no matter who gets it or why.
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:57 am

1/20/2011

My sister-in-law as I stated earlier when she became a
widow she picked herself up by the boot straps and went
back to college and made a career for herself and her son.
Her son today is a radiologist, I'm very proud of them both,
not many women can do this, I have another sister-in-law
who became a widow 6 years ago, she' still young 52, she
whines, the only good thing they did when he was ill was to
buy their home outright. I keep telling her go out and get a
life but that falls on deaf ears.....


Cheers..Joe
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joefrank
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

1/20/2011

Speaking of Social Security, my Mother became a widow
in 1956 at the age of 29 with five small children, ages 7 1/2
to a year old, she received Social Security for herself and
the five kids, it was a very small amount in those days. Three
years later she re-married a great guy who loved us as his
own.....


Cheers...Joe
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: SOCIAL SECURITY READY TO DEFAULT! WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ?   Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:24 am

Joe, and once she remarried, she stopped receiving her SS from her first marriage. Retired widows and widowers sometimes choose to live together w/o getting married for just that reason.

And Joe, a 52 year-old-woman might have a hard time getting a job in this economy, or were you thinking she should get another life by getting another husband, instead? Smile

Ann
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