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 So many answers in a nutshell!

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alj
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PostSubject: So many answers in a nutshell!   Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:15 am

I have always loved reading Joe (Joseph Campbell).
This afternoon, I came across one of his lectures. A series of many of those lectures are available to download in audio CD's, @ $5.99 each, from this page:

http://www.jcf.org/new/index.php?categoryid=104

The one I have been reading (associates are able to read online transcripts) is lecture # 1.1.1. - The Celebration of life.

The whole time I was reading it, I kept thinking of the conversations we have been having right here on this thread.

Remember Abe's History of Religion thread? this lecture speaks of 200,000 year old shrines to the cave bear - probably to oldest religious sites. It talks about the way humans from every culture have been drawn to the mystery of what life is about and why we are here, and, in the midst of diversity of time and culture, have managed to come up with universal ideas - universal, and evolving at the same time. One of the basics: Animals, including humans, must kill to live.

He says we sometimes refer to mythology as "other people's religion." "...what I'm calling mythology,...many people call religions." He asks us to,"...have a look at your own [religion] as mythology." He talks about the four functions of myth: to reconcile ourselves to that first fact - we must kill to live; to present an understandable (for the time) image of the universe; to validate a moral order; and to integrate the individual into society.

I don't know the original date of this lecture. I do know Campbell died in 1989, and I can see that this little lecture is so - very - relevant to this particular time and mess we are in right now. He speaks of the development (read evolution) of our religious and mythological sense over time. He even refers to economics (and this is how I found this particular lecture. A part of his statement on economics popped up on my little homepage widget):





Quote :
All cultures have grown out of myths. They are founded on myths. What these
myths have given has been inspiration for aspiration. The economic
interpretation of history is for the birds. Economics is itself a function of
aspiration. It's what people aspire to that creates the field in which
economics works.

Alice wanted a new thread. I encourage all of you to consider downloading this CD. the whole of this lecture would make a cool topic for discussion.

Ann
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:26 am

Dear Ann,
You new signature is a beaut. I have been reading The Grapes of Wrath because of our Harry. Funny how times come around and circle the old problems over and over again. How people have not really changed that much through the years and the problems are still there. Those Oklahoma migrants faced the problems that the Mexican migrants do this day. This day, handbills are sent to Mexico for so many people needed to work the fields in Florida. I can only speak about Florida.

I do not know what Florida would do without this labor to pick the fruits, work the plant nurseries, plant the plants, do the work for minimum wage.

I know that DK is speaking of Florida, too. I do not generalize this illegal alien problem to all states. I know what the Arizona Law would do to Florida.
Already, farmers are competing with most countries to sell their produce. Just go to Wal-mart and see the tags where the vegetables are grown. USA is not there much. Even with cheap Mexican labor, the US farmer cannot compete with other countries. We have a lazy populace. Collect the welfare rather than work for minimum wage. I know that is true.
Love,
Betty
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:31 am

Thank you, Betty. Sometimes I feel like a voice in the wilderness when the obvious is so clear to me.
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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:49 am

Dear DK,
Most people see their own front door.

It would be something if all the ilegal mexican people just decided to not do it. If people think there is an economic crisis now, what would that do? It boggles my mind if just the people in Florida were to not work. Oranges would rot on trees, strawberry fields would never be planted or picked, tomatoes would never be planted, ...well hardly anything would get planted, let alone pick or pack or taken to packing houses. Nothing would get sprayed and insects would take over....

Farmers do not do their own work these days. They own the land, they contract the labor. They buy nice machines for the labor to use. Every year they get more and more land.

Now, if you do not have 100 acres, you are too small to sell what you produce. That is the way it is. Everything is volumn.

Love,
Betty
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:19 am

The small, independent farmer is like the small, independent businessman. If you aren't a "too big to fail" corporation, you haven't much of a chance.

Agriculture once honored Mother Earth. The big machines just tear her apart.

Remember Dr. Seuss' book, The Lorax? Who speaks for the trees today?

Ann
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:37 am

When the reality sinks in, people may change their attitude about migrant workers.

From what I've read, the migrant workers do not take jobs away. They fill a need. As long as people can get money for doing nothing, they will continue to do nothing.

Ego plays a role. Some do not want to be seen performing tasks that are considered beneath the status they would like to be viewed as having. Those that stick their ego where it belongs can dig out of the hole they're in.

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Betty Fasig
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:39 pm

Dear Abe,
I think you are right about the ego thing. People have told me they would not do a labor job because it was "too much Manuel labor."

I wonder about that. Every day of my life, I do manual labor. I think it keeps the heart going day by day. I am old now, but labor is how I keep my business going on.

Most of my life, when I wasted my youth and health, I did bookkeeping for people who never lifted a finger in their company. What a waste of life to do other peoples bookkeeping. At 57 I jumped off the deep end and started my wetland company. Digging and planting in the mud. Because no one else wanted to get sweaty and dirty, I did pretty well for a small company of one old lady and one nice mexican woman who helped me with the labor when I procured a job to do. My company earned 75 thousand a year on native weeds. The people who did not mind getting dirty, people who would face aligators with me in rentention ponds, leaches, muck and mire. We did it in the middle of winter, too. In water so cold our fingers were blue. Labor. It is what makes this whole nation work.

Love,
Betty
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:50 am

Betty, you are one who still honors the earth. As Abe said, too many of us see working with our hands, especially when we are using them to dig literally into the dirt itself, as being beneath our grandiose status.

It is a sad comment on our society that we honor the machines that keep us away from our natural world more than we do nature itself.

Ann
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dkchristi
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:17 am

I remember my southern mother telling me that having a sun tan meant you were poor in the south and had no one else to tend to your garden or your acres. Therefore, genteel southern women were careful to remain covered and walk with a parasol.

When my mother worked in her garden, she wore a gigantic Chinese hat that was nearly as big as an umbrella and long gloves and pants. At 91, she still has beautiful skin except for the fact that it is thin from medication.
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Abe F. March
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:04 am

Wannabees are among the most egotistical. They go into hock for a house beyond their means, drive a prestigious car (usually leased) and dine at the fanciest restaurants. They live in a fantasy world. Lose their job or miss a few payments, and their fantasy world comes crumbling down.

Iím reminded of Louie Shatkin, the owner of a large manufacturing concern that supported a subsidiary corporation I was running. He had the oldest car in the parking lot. When he crossed his legs, the sole of his shoe had a hole in it. He put on no airs. He dressed as he pleased and did what he wanted without the need to impress.

I think many of us have gone through a phase, feeling the need to impress. How we are/were perceived was important to status and often influenced jobs or business. People would inquire about the make/model of car we drove or what house/neighborhood we lived in. For many it was all superficial.

Then came a time when we didnít care what people thought. In fact, it became fun to do the opposite of what others would expect. Getting our hands dirty is one of those things. That is when we know who we are and live life on our terms - not what others expect. We are genuine. We donít need to impress. We are. (I am).
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:41 am



Ann
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:51 am

Another quote from that same lecture popped up on my widget today:

Quote :
The image of the cosmos must change with the development of the mind
and knowledge; otherwise, the mythic statement is lost, and man becomes
dissociated from the very basis of his own religious experience. Doubt
comes in, and so forth. You must remember: all of the great traditions,
and little traditions, in their own time were scientifically correct.
That is to say, they were correct in terms of the scientific image of
that age.

Does that describe the world today, or what?

Ann
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alj
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PostSubject: Re: So many answers in a nutshell!   Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:34 am

Latest widget:

Quote :
Read other people's myths, not those of your own religion, because
you tend to interpret your own religion in terms of facts-but if you
read other ones, you begin to get the message.
Joseph Campbell, The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers

Ann
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So many answers in a nutshell!

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