Shaky Ground in Georgia

Subject: Shaky Ground in Georgia Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:45 pm

News reports about the fighting between Georgia and Russia seldom mention that it was Georgia's recently-elected leader who started it. Nor do they mention the consequences of a major war involving Russia.
It seems that every so often the lesson has to be learned that taunting the Russian bear is more than merely dangerous. Napoleon learned it, Hitler learned it. I hope we don't learn it, but the United States is flying 2,000 Georgian troops home from Iraq and that will stir the pot.
We don't want to get into a conflict with Russia. Aside from the fact that they still have hundreds of nuclear weapons aimed at American cities there is the hopelessness of ground warfare when winter comes to the steppes and forests in a land of diehard patriots with a well-equipped military.
The first thing we would have to do is reinstate the draft. Millions of men would be needed. Casualties on both sides would be enormous. The Russians are more willing to endure the loss of life than Americans. The deaths and injuries suffered during five years in Iraq could sometimes be equaled in a single day just as happened on occasion during the First World War.
Months spent as an MP in Germany immediately after the end of World War II included countless hours of talking with former German soldiers, now civilian guards at an ordnance depot. No matter which of them might be talking, the tales of fighting on the Russian Front were chillingly similar. How often I heard, "We could kill a hundred and two hundred more would be right behind them."
I heard tales of spitting or urinating and hearing a loud crack as it froze before it could hit the ground. Both sides used some horse-drawn equipment capable of going where vehicles could not. German horses could withstand cold to 24 below zero, Russian horses to 60 below. Every moving part on vehicles would freeze and tanks and trucks would be frozen solid to the ground. Men would die in November and their bodies remain hidden until spring. And always there were the partisans - members of the underground - ready to kill at every opportunity. Today we would call them insurgents or terrorists.
No, we do not want the last chapter in the legacy of such concern to George W. Bush to be a war with Russia. There would be no winner, just millions of losers. Georgia is not our fight, not our cause. They started it, let them finish it.
_________________
Mystery Writers of America, Private Eye Writers of America
www.dickstodghill.com

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:08 am

Had me going there with the title, Dick! (Riverdale, Georgia)

We may not agree with Russia on how it fights its wars, but you got to
give `em credit for not wasting time with negotiations, Congress, or
public opinion. The best way to fight a fire is to put it out before it
turns into a monster.

We need to stay completely out of this, even at the expense of losing the oil supply.

There is a lesson to be learned here...
_________________
Brew
My website:http://www.philwhitley.com
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." ~ John Adams, 1765

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:17 am

We should let Russia take care of Georgia and not get involved in the conflict. It's their problem, not ours and we should stay out of it.

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:33 am

The sticky wicket comes in because Georgia is a US ally. We're already in it due to this little complication.
_________________
Brew
My website:http://www.philwhitley.com
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." ~ John Adams, 1765

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:51 am

The idea of Bush telling somebody not to bomb people goes beyond irony.

What's REALLY messed up about this is that the Georgians are the bad guys. (Or were until Russia started bombing them to bits)

One of my Principles For a Better World is this: if somebody want's to go off and be independent...LET THEM!!!

Being against that is kind of un-American, wouldn't it seem?
_________________

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:27 am

At the UN, the American Ambassador was condemming the Russian Representative about their invasion of Georgia. The Russian said, "look who's talking?"
Bush destoyed our credibility with the invasion of Iraq. How can he possibly condem Russian aggression without first acknowledging the mistake he made?
From information I'm receiving, it has much to do with oil - again. The Georgian pipeline is designed to circumvent Russia and bring oil to the west.
We can be thankful that Georgia has not already become a member of NATO. That would have forced us to take action to defend them and placed us in another war. The description of war with the Russians that Dick described is something we cannot let ourselves get into.
The Russians know that the west is not going to act. They are showing that they are not weak and when pushed will act.
Any tough talk on the side of the west will reflect negatively on the person doing the talking.
_________________
"To Beirut and Back"
http://www.freewebs.com/abemarch

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:07 pm

The problem is it seems that the United States thinks it's somehow better than other nations. For some reason, we think we can tell everyone else in the world what to do and that we can do whatever we want without having to listen to anyone else. Here we are trying to tell Russia what, but think if Russia told us to stop the Iraqi war, would we listen? No, Bush certainly would not listen! We need a new president who can re-establish America's credibility in the world. We need someone who'll actually listen to what other countries have to say and not try to impose the American will on others at all costs. War with Russia or for that matter, war with China should be avoided at all costs. A US / Russia war could easily result in 100+ million people dead and if China became invloved, the deth toll could go over 1 billion.

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:35 pm

What they are showing is that if Georgia was a NATO member, the U.S. would be compelled to go to war to defend them from attack. So maybe we shouldn't be trying to expand NATO so aggressively into Russian sphere of influence.
_________________

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:51 pm

I certainly agree with that.
_________________
Mystery Writers of America, Private Eye Writers of America
www.dickstodghill.com

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:10 pm

Latest report says that Russia has stopped its military action against Georgia. Says "They have been punished enough."

Whew!
_________________
Brew
My website:http://www.philwhitley.com
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." ~ John Adams, 1765

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:50 pm

When will WE have been punished enough for Bush to stop military action in Near East?
_________________

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:09 pm

And now they've got a new cease-fire agreemant. Hopefully this one works a little better than the last one. What's amazing is here America is trying to tell Russia what to do, but think what would have happened if Russia tried to tell America what to do when we invaded Iraq.

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:48 pm

The debate is now about who started things. Gorbachov, who instigated the democratic process in Russia, says that Georgia started things. He is a credible person.
_________________
"To Beirut and Back"
http://www.freewebs.com/abemarch

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:34 pm

The United States should keep its big nose out of that part of the world. Isn't there enough to worry about right here at home? Robert Gates says there is no need for American military intervention at this time. At this time? Tangling with Russia would be the biggest mistake this country ever made. Bush better "look into Putin's eyes" again.
_________________
Mystery Writers of America, Private Eye Writers of America
www.dickstodghill.com

Subject: Re: Shaky Ground in Georgia Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:32 pm

I'd agree it's best for us to keep out of Russia's business. We should not intervene militarily in the Russia/Georgia conflict, not now, not ever! Making enemies with Russia is a very, very bad thing to do.