George Bush's legacy

Four Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 250

Shelagh, my feelings tell me that my dollar buys much less than it did a few years ago. I have formed an opinion that this is true. When I use my intellect to corroborate that this is true and that my dollar does indeed buy much less than it did a few years ago, I would say my feelings reached a pretty accurate conclusion.

George, not being familiar with either your research or your book, I have no idea what either is about. I do know, however, that anyone can use research, no matter how long it takes or the pages they go through, to prove anything they wish to prove.

To m, then, your opinion is just that, your opinion. As such it is worth pretty much exactly what everyone else’s is.

I'm quite sure you think the way you see everything is the only one true way, but I doubt that many of us would agree.

I have no doubt that your 8 years of research has given you a wealth of information, which you have used to form your opinions, and I have to respect that. I think that makes you very well informed, but it doesn’t mean that the opinions you have formed are necessarily correct. Only that from what you have learned you believe them to be correct.

I’m quite sure that had a different person performed exactly the same 8 years of research that you did, they may not have reached the same conclusions. Surely you know that?

I am not a supporter of George W. Bush, I didn't vote for him either time, and I am one of those who think he was not legally elected at all. The Electoral College, with the backing of the Supreme Court, awarded the election to Bush. If you will do a bit more research you’ll find that in 2000 Al Gore got the majority of the popular vote, so I’m not in the minority at all.

It matters not how many quotes you post, nor whether I believe them or not. What matters is the perception each of us has about our own quality of life under any given administration. I am not alone in thinking that Bush has hurt that quality of life, and in wanting to see a change.

There are those who see thousands of jobs leaving the country and don't believe the administration when they tell us it's a good thing. We hear the administration saying that it has created thousands of replacement jobs, and yet when we actually stop and look, we find that those jobs are, for the most part, low paying service jobs and we know we are being lied to.

We don’t believe the administration when they say that allowing millions of illegal immigrants to cross our borders is a good thing, or that their “guest worker” program is anything but amnesty. We don’t believe them when they say these illegal immigrants are doing jobs “American’s won’t do” because those jobs have gotten done ever since this country was formed, and would still be done without the illegal immigrants doing them. The only thing is that the American laborers would want a fair wage for their labor, and the large corporations who now own the majority of the farms don’t want to pay that. They have seen their profits go through the roof because of this cheap labor, and yet American’s are seeing the price of produce go up every year. If they aren’t paying for American labor, and they keep raising prices, exactly where do you think the money is going?

We don’t believe we should have gone to Iraq, and we don’t think we should stay there. We don’t think there were WMD in Iraq or a delivery system in place. We know that there are no leading Democrats who are calling for us to surrender in Iraq, but we still hear the Republicans saying that at every opportunity. We know that many large corporations are profiting tremendously from the war, and we don’t believe a lot of our politicians when they say this isn’t true.

The fact is, that we don’t believe the media when they tell us these things are so either.

I could go on and on with this, but quite simply it doesn’t make any difference. Our country has been taken away from the people and sold to the highest bidder, and we’re too far down that road to turn back.

I don't want to argue this point. I don't want to take part in a useless discussion of the many vastly different viewpoints on the merits of George W. Bush. To many of these discussions lead to harsh words and feelings, and I just don't have the time for all of the negativity. I will then leave all of you to your own very well formed opinions, and I will remain with mine. Again, I doubt that any of us are all right or all wrong, but I know that many don't feel that way.

I'll just drift away into another board where opinions about politics is not discussed.

I appreciate that everyone has their own viewpoint, I'm glad we have the freedom to disagree with each other, and believe me when I say that I have nothing but respect for each of you.

Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2069 Location : UK

Please don't drift away Don. If George had not taken an opposing viewpoint, we would have been denied the great post you just made. I started this thread to read opposing views in the hope that someone would take the time and effort to write the kind of explanation you just did.

If you stick around, we will learn a great deal from you and, hopefully, you might find information here that will be helpful to you.

~Shelagh Very Happy

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Shelagh Watkins
http://shelaghwatkins.co.uk/

Four Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 250

Shelegh, my love, there is information everywhere if one keeps an open mind.

I don't intend to get into a political discussion that may end with people saying things they shouldn't and resulting in feelings being hurt.

This is a good board, but I've seen many good boards go downhill quickly when the discussion gets too heated. Too many people take the comments personally, and usually nothing good comes from it.

We all have our own opinions, and to me one is as valuable as another. I'm never completely right, even though most of the time I think I am, and I'd like to just leave it at that.

I'm not going anywhere, other than into the other room where my laptop is calling my name. Seems it thinks I need to be working on my latest novel.

Subject: Re: George Bush's legacy Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:49 pm

Don,
I just re-read what you wrote and find myself agreeing with most of what you said.
I agree that everyone has an opinion and whatever those opinions are should not be forced on anyone else. If one states their case they may find that others may agree or disagree.

Living outside the United States makes me especially aware of how others react to my views. If I as an American criticize the actions of the government or their representatives, it is not appreciated. The same is true of how Americans feel about someone not American making statements about their government. Even if what is said is true, it is still resented especially if it is negative. In the case where the statement is positive but an opposing view, it is resented.
That's just the way it is.

Four Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 250

Abe, I fully understand that.

I think George is a very intelligent man, and I honestly believe we'd like each other if we took the time to get to know one another. I suspect he is a very good writer, and I would be very interested in reading the work he was talking about here.

It seems I don't agree with him on some topics, but that is only natural. So long as some of us don't agree, we can be sure that more than one side of an issue will be brought up.

I am not against fighting wars. I served in the US Air Force in the 60's when there was another war going on, and there has been a Harpe in every war this country has ever had. Even if my GGGGGF did fight as a Tory at King's Mountain in the Revolutionary War, he was still very much in it. I lost a brother, an uncle, and a cousin in WWII, and I have my brother's Purple Heart hanging on the wall among my photos.

I wrote a letter that was published in support of us going into Iraq a few years ago, because I believed as others did that we were being told the truth about the WMD and the delivery system. I was concerned that we were deciding not to go after the true terrorists that struck us on 9-11, but I actually thought this might be the correct course of action. When I learned, as did everyone else, that Bush has acted on bad intel I became more and more convinced that if he were not being forthright about that, then he was probably not telling us the truth about very much of anything else. The final straw for me was when he gave billions of tax dollars to the wealthiest people in the country, who didn't need it at all, and sent the working men and women enough crumbs to make us think we were getting something.

I don't want an all out move out of Iraq. But we train our guys in a matter of months to go over there and fight, and I think the Iraqi's have had plenty of time to train their own. I think they should take the same basic training we take, and for every Iraqi soldier that finishes the training, send one of our guys home.

So, I'm not against war, Abe, just this war, because we not fighting it for the reasons we were given.

Four Star Member Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 376

I don't think the world is ready for my views on anything. However . . .

Four Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 250

Don't know about the world, George, but I am. I think we'd see eye to eye on many things, and I never let political differences enter into a friendship.

Four Star Member Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 376

I think we see eye to eye on more than you realise Don.

Four Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 250

The couple who are the Godparents of our two youngest children (who are grown now) are very dyed in the wool staunch Bush Republicans. We have been best of friends for about 40 years, and we occasionally have the old political discussion. We agree on about 90 percent of everything else, but just have no common ground in politics. But, we have never had a cross word, and we've been through a lot of good times and bad times together.

I think, George, that you are right, and that we do have much in common. And I think that's good. At least we'll get both sides of an issue into the open, won't we?

Joined : 12 Jan 2008 Posts : 15

The Bush legacy is not going to be publish the next day after he leaves office , nor the year after , all that is being printed now are peoples opinions about his legacy , and How insulting him on his intelligent will get you published in the next New York Times best seller.
Please the truth about his legacy will be historians to find and print out after Bush and many of his critics are dead and buried, I found out that they were many critics of FDR saying how foolish he was to send young men to fight in Europe’s world war.

Everyone has there opinion and someday someone will print out this BB and say whoa , This Bush guy was not well like and yet he was reelected again. No matter what the out come the bottom line is he is not running for office next year and yet people believe he is going to proclaim himself Emperor of America, because they heard it on there radio station.

I love it when I ask my friends who hate Bush , if I asked them If Bush was a Democrat President and did the same thing would it get as much scrutiny now? And I get otter silence.

Of course they would point out that a Democrat President would not do that , and I would give the examples of President Clinton bombing another Country and killing innocents for no reason I’E Bosnia.

No matter the out come of the legacy of any president , you will have to wait for that one person who would study history book after history book , all newspapers and recordings and also archives from government buildings to know what really the legacy of that President was, We are only part of the history , a small one sentence of a minority that hated Bush or admire him.

Subject: Re: George Bush's legacy Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:49 pm

Subject: Re: George Bush's legacy Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:55 pm

I just wanted to share that I am enjoying this thread immensely, and I think that the airing of opinions is really important. As a Canadian, I try to keep my eyes and ears on things happening around the world. With the American election taking up a lot of media attention, and given a lot of our TV actually is fed from the U.S. it is hard to miss, and I try to balance rhetoric with what is actually taking place. I find this discussion an interesting way to see what is really on people's minds as opposed to what makes it on to CNN.
Certainly there are oddities everywhere (Canada is no exception - we have two official languages, but not in every province or territory, and two distinctly different legal systems, in addition to at least one province at any time that would like to be independent). I think one aspect that freaks me out the most is that people can be led to believe that what satirists and comedians say as if it is actually true (hence the Colbert Report and John Daily Shows among others) or that the "Oprah" bump can get someone elected.
This life is a grand adventure, and I think we do have to take a very different approach to deficits, debt and priorities if it is going to be worth leaving to future generations.
There you go, my 25 cents worth.
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Pam Robertson

http://andthebandplayedonmylawn.blogspot.com

Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2069 Location : UK

I certainly agree with you Pam about people being misled. To make matters worse, those who mislead don't always do so intentionally. They actually believe in the things they say and no amount of reasoning with them will make them see things any differently. I am a great believer in allowing people to make up their own minds on practically everything.

Therefore, it is the duty of everyone in the media to present just facts and not opinions and allow viewers/listeners/readers to form their own opinions. Factual programs offering opinions leads to people believing in fictional stories that are meant to entertain not inform. With the lines between the two blurring so much, it is difficult for some people to know what to believe.
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Shelagh Watkins
http://shelaghwatkins.co.uk/

Subject: Re: George Bush's legacy Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:29 pm

I think it is also worth noting that celebrities hold a lot of sway with some people. These celebs are often out in left field, and folks who blindly follow are certain to be misled and duped. I often wonder what gives them the idea that they are so well informed.

US politics is definitely led by the media. It is also difficult to tell if a politician is telling the truth or not. Mud slinging is everywhere, and it is sickening. Many of the people I know are fed up to the eyeballs with the way things are going, and even the party lines are blurring.

Whoever said that politics is a dirty business was not talking through their hat!
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Zada Connaway
Mother's Journals: parts 1, 2 and 3 ISBN # 1-4241-6969-0

http://www.zadaconnaway.com/

Subject: Re: George Bush's legacy Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:16 am